Is Family Dollar Bad For Seminole Heights?
The Seminole Heights community faces a daunting question between character and convenience.
The revitalization of Florida Avenue is an ongoing process and is close to the hearts of many Seminole Heights residents. Now, a corporate retail giant which appears to be moving into the neighborhood has those hearts racing with discontent.
Five hundred sixty four people thus far have liked the No Family Dollar Seminole Heights Facebook page and a website has been created solely for the purpose of educating and informing local residents on the progress of the fight to keep the chain "box store" out of a neighborhood many want to see continue its historic restoration.
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The Official Unoffical Seminole Heights blog page is currently flooded with comments on the issue, some outraged by the lack of local flavor a Family Dollar will bring to the neighborhood, others unable to comprehend what the issue is.
"I know we all like to think we are so important, but is the property zoned for the Dollar store? If it is we don’t have anything to say about it! Also on the plus side it will create some employment in the neighborhood," one commenter said.
Another user named Woodrow Smits weighed in with this: "Family Dollar will be a great addition to the neighborhood. They offer a wide variety of products at reasonable prices, which is just what people living in depressed neighborhoods need during these tough economic times."
But the majority of residents giving serious attention to the issue are not at all pleased by the prospect of the property at 5100 North Florida Avenue (big white building, north of The Independent) becoming a chain retailer of goods often made outside of the United States.
"There are 4 of these less than two miles away from here. This is a major step back for Seminole Heights, and all the homeowners adjacent to this. Absolutely horrible. A slap in the face, and discouraging to those that are actually investing in the area," one comment said.
A post on the Facebook page cites facts about Family Dollar jobs, the effect the retailer has on commercial property and local home values and most importantly, the downside of not sticking with locally owned mom and pop shops. Some simply point to the fact that poorly maintained Family Dollar locations already exist in the area and they don't understand the need for another store.
A Tampa Bay Times article outlined a meeting that took place last Sunday at The Refinery in which local residents voiced their concerns and created ways to get organized for a movement against Family Dollar. The article notes racial and socio-economic tension in the discussion, although many in attendance felt that view was skewed.
A comment on the Seminole Heights blog site confirmed that some may be taking it that way, however.
"You can’t stop a business just because it doesn’t your socio-economic ideal. There is not a legal leg to stand on," the comment read.
Whether it's a fear of low quality foreign made merchandise being pumped out of a storefront that doesn't fit the character of the neighborhood and is likely to be slovenly kept or a general concern for the business structure of Seminole Heights, the movement against Family Dollar continues to pick up steam.
Read complete coverage of the Family Dollar issue here. This page include links to other Seminole Heights Patch articles, various local news reports, community links as well as coverage from other cities that have fought Family Dollar.
We want to know what you think. Is another Family Dollar store at the 5100 North Florida Avenue location bad for Seminole Heights? Tell us in the comments section below.
More links:
Latest Seminole Heights Patch coverage:
- Blog Post: An Open Letter to 'No Family Dollar' Movement
- No Family Dollar Movement Turns Out For WTSP Broadcast
- Local Businesses Angered Over Addition of New Family Dollar
- City: Family Dollar Is Entitled To New Store
- Is Family Dollar Bad for Seminole Heights?
- Map of existing nearby Family Dollar stores
- How to get involved in the 'No Family Dollar' Movement
Other local news coverage:
- Times: Tampa neighborhood wants to block Family Dollar from opening
- ABC Action News: Family Dollar store not welcome in increasingly lively Seminole Heights
- TBO.com: Family Dollar plan upsets some Seminole Heights residents
- WTSP: Seminole Heights residents try to block Family Dollar store from opening
- Bay News 9: Big box vs. mom and pop: Evictions handed out, Family Dollar moving in
Family Dollar news from around the country:
- Palm Harbor Family Dollar Zoning Denied
- Norcross, GA: City Council Denies Family Dollar Zoning Request
- Carborro, NC,: Family Dollar proposal denied
If you're looking to get involved in the 'No Family Dollar Movement,' Seminole Heights Patch has compliled the following info:
Websites:
- Join: Seminole Heights Residents for Equality and Discourse Facebook Page
- Join: No Family Dollar Facebook Page
- Check out the website,NoFamillyDollar.com
Yard signs:
You can pick up 'No Family Dollar' yard signs at the following local businesses, according to NoFamilyDollar.com:
- Microgroove, 4906 North Florida Avenue
- Sherry's Yesterdaze Vintage Clothing and Antiques, 5207 North Florida Avenue
- Velo Champ, 6112 North Central Avenue
Editor's Note: A previous version of this story incorrectly estimated the location of the address of the proposed site.
Jennifer Wisniewski
8:15 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
I feel that we have enough Family Dollar stores in the surrounding area that we do not need any more.
Dean Koutroumanis
1:59 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
According to Family Dollar . com; they have over 5 within 2.5 miles from the location, all in need of attention to the properties, some generally dilapidated: source - http://www.nofamilydollar.com/family-dollar-store-photos/
Sue
5:34 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
I wouldn't mind if they made the exterior blend with the "old" architecture like Publix was designed on Nebraska ave in the old style. Then it would blend in with the area.
joe cole
1:50 pm on Thursday, August 9, 2012
This store is not good for a historic neighborhood. It does not foster community pride. It's actually an embarrassment.
Autumn
8:40 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
Most people live in this historic neighborhood to get away from the big-box and strip-mall feel of the rest of the City as evidenced by the strong support of innovative local businesses like the Independent, Cappy's, the Refinery, the Front Porch, Jai Dee Yoga, etc. A Family Dollar smack in the middle of our little developing "downtown" of small businesses is hurtful to this vision and will be hurtful for other small business ventures in the area. The future of Seminole Heights is up to its residents and we need to speak out and actively pursue protests of this new development, or the little corner of the City we call home will take a serious turn in a direction most of us do not want.
Doug Carter
8:47 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
Family Dollar is not going to gamble. The reason a store is going between Cappy's and the Independent is because the market research shows the area will support another store. Many residents need to understanad that the walled enclave sits in an economically depresssed neighborhood. You may not want another Family Dollar but most residents likely do. When you don't have a car, it's nice to be able to walk to the store. Listen to how elitist you sound. Get a grip and get worked up about something important.
Dean Koutroumanis
1:57 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
http://www.nofamilydollar.com
Joe Positive
2:41 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Then why not have a grocery in that space? We have 4 Family Dollars within a 2.5 mile radius, but only one (small) grocery store serving the entire neighborhood. Wouldn't those economically disadvantaged people benefit from a grocery on the other side of the interstate? Better than another Family Dollar selling cheap crap.
Sharon Short
12:15 pm on Friday, January 11, 2013
FYI...The FamilyDollar is NOT going between Cappy's and The Independant. It is going in the block of Florida Ave, North of the Independant (North of Wilder Ave).
Autumn
9:12 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
I don't think being concerned about the small businesses in my community is elitist in any way. There are two or three small businesses being kicked out of that building in the next month to make room for a handful of minimum wage jobs and a store whose profits head straight to the headquarters in North Carolina. If you want to talk economically depressed... this plan doesn't make sense for positive local economics. A Family Dollar isn't going to boost local business or job development. I do understand the positive impact for residents that do not have access to transportation, but there are three or four other FDs within a mile. I've done spatial market research professionally and I think FD has slacked on this one.
Pat Alexander
6:44 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
I agree completely with you Autumn. Couldn't have said it better.
Doug Carter
9:20 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
Do the small businesses being "kicked out" pay above minimum wage? The jobs the provided were more than a 'handful"? It will boost job development because it will employ local people who will be happy to get a job. Your research is better than Family Dollar's? Really? They slacked? Are the other stores successful? Overall, we live in an economically depressed neighborhood with pockets of money. It would be interesting to see what the residents within a 1 mile radius of the store think. I'd be willing to surmise that a majority are in favor, or at least a plurality, as the majority might not give a shite.
Amanda
2:11 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
How many jobs will Family Dollar provide? I asked, and they couldn't give me a straight answer. Will they provide full time positions with health care? Again, they couldn't answer. Their prices aren't actually all that great, so while I can understand wanting to be able to walk to a store to get things, if the location doesn't help those that are "economically depressed" get out of that situation, I don't want them. Call me an elitist. I call myself someone who actually has an understanding of how this country is supposed to work, and Family Dollar isn't helping. I have no doubt they would get business, and that they could take their earnings back to NC. But that won't help "economically depressed" people get their lives back on track. Real jobs will. Small, local businesses that spend more of their dollar locally will. Everything I've researched says that Family Dollar will hire one manager, and a few part time employees. That doesn't sound like positive economic development to me. That sounds like continuing the cycle of poverty.
Dean Koutroumanis
2:01 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
Mr. Carter, please become more up to date on the issue: The Current Tenants for several thriving local businesses were asked to vacate. In their stead will be less jobs all minimum wage. This business will have a net loss of jobs, all being quality local jobs. http://www.nofamilydollar.com/no-family-dollar-tampa-news/2012/7/29/current-tenants-were-told-to-vacate-by-the-1st-of-september.html
Autumn
9:34 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
You're right, most people don't give a crap about what goes in there or what goes on in their neighborhood either. There are pockets of people that do and that care about the types of businesses that line our streets and care about those businesses that will take an economic hit with a big chain store right next door. That type of data does not show up in market research performed in a corporate setting, and I do realize that FD is in the business of making money, not improving the culture of small business.
Doug Carter
9:51 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
True. Family Dollar is a business. The store is likely going to open. Rather than try to stop it, the neighborhood would be better served by engaging in a dialogue with Dean Koutramanis, (forgive me if the spelling is incorrect) the local Family Dollar rep, and work with them re being a better corporate citizen.
Whine and Moan
7:33 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
I agree. I find all this hoopla about a Family Dollar kind of goofy. There are parts of Florida Ave that are darn dilapidated, and where were all these people when our post office closed and a Napa Auto parts came in ??
Family Dollar isn't going to hurt Florida Av or the neighborhood. Only the people who already live here will shop there. It won't draw people from other neighborhoods, so it will be convenient and important to those of us who live nearby.
Shawn Hicks
9:14 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
Whine and Moan -- one argument against Family Dollar is that its presence will discourage more independent shops like Microgroove, the Independent, and Cleanse from moving in. If you like that kind of shopping, you may see new stores go elsewhere. Why? Because the entrepreneurs that create these kinds of shopping districts dislike stores like Family Dollar and believe that they reduce the suitability of the location for their businesses. They look elsewhere. Even if we think that is silly, or whining, or whatever, it isn't going to affect their choice to not locate near a big-box discount store. The Family Dollar is creating fear amongst business owners, possible future business owners, and their customers that the young shopping district forming on that stretch of Florida Avenue could revert back to the state it was in five years ago--commercial intensive with nothing for residents.
What do you recommend we do to convince them that they're wrong? They know their customers better than we do, I would imagine. Do you care if they stay?
Whine and Moan
10:52 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
shawn, i like those ma and pa businesses. always have. but when i need to buy new underwear and then some paper towels because i'm having my bridge group over, i don't have the ability to travel far.
i think we can have both. we can coexist on florida ave. Family dollar doesn't take away the uniqueness of these cute stores, they are completely different. the convenience stores on fla ave - gits and citgo - are the only options for someone who has to walk.
too much hoopla over something not so bad. Family dollar can come, not a problem.
Shawn Hicks
12:30 pm on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
Whine and Moan -- I appreciate your answer but I am thinking you didn't understand my point. Would you mind if I try to make it a second time? If you do get my point, let me know and I'll stop repeating.
While you may believe the stores can coexist, the people who own and run those stores do not agree with you. Even if you are 100% right, if the people who build those stores believe different, they will not continue to add new stores to the area and eventually the existing ones will leave. The very folks who build these districts are telling us, the residents, that they and others like them will avoid an area with a Family Dollar. To me, if they are correct, that means the two types of shopping cannot coexist even if you, me, and Family Dollar all think they can.
So I ask you, if you are presented with the choice of having the Family Dollar and watch the other shops and restaurants leave, or not have a Family Dollar, which would you choose?
What I hear from the businesses is that this is the choice before us.
Whine and Moan
7:54 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Mr Hicks, sounds like a classic case of cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Florida avenue is not some ritzy, high roller place. Maybe in the minds of a few. If I had to choose for myself, I would have to pass on the $8.00 bar of foo-foo soap, and go with a general store with reasonable prices.
I think the beer garden place is doing really well. I see the crowds. Family Dollar will close at 8pm, and that place starts crowding up later than that.
You don't need to repeat anything to me again. thank you.
Shawn Hicks
9:34 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Thank you Mr Whine and Moan. I believe I understand your position now.
I suppose this was to be expected. A number of residents would be perfectly comfortable with the existing state of the commercial district, whereas the the folks moving in and gentrifying the area would have different expectations. There have been other examples of that "culture clash" in Seminole Heights over the past decade.
It will be interesting to see how this works out.
Doris Cook Gagner
10:16 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
I am not in agreement with a Family Dollar store in our area. It doesn't fit the format that Seminole Heights is trying to establish, and there are already enough of these stores. The newer structures are shiny and clean, but over time they become unkempt and unsightly. In addition, I don't think that our neighborhood is any more economically depressed than most of Tampa. What looks pretty does not often tell the true story in many of the upscale neighborhoods. The prices at Publix, SteinMart, Westshore Mall, International Mall, just to mention a few, tell a more wide-ranged story about the economy in general. There is hardly one store in town that is not boasting 40-50% off and buy-one-get-one, and these retail establishments service all of Tampa.
Doug Carter
10:40 am on Friday, August 3, 2012
"There is hardly one store in town that is not boasting 40-50% off and buy-one-get-one, and these retail establishments service all of Tampa." Hardly one? Well! Hard times in Tampa town. (Hyperbolic statements don't advance arguments).
Whine and Moan
7:27 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
do you live in the neighborhood?
Mickey
1:57 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
What about getting a grant from a local or federal government agency? Is there something like that which already exists? I mean, a program that encourages local enterprise, local employment, perhaps minority and/or local management? Would it be possible to find an investor interested in supporting such a goal who could outbid a company that is not locally-based? If outbidding Family Dollar is not possible, what about setting up a plaza or area that does encourage local ownership and management somewhere else in Seminole Heights?
Whine and Moan
7:35 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
rick scott killed all that funding and those programs
Elisabeth Bezemer
2:05 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
yes there are too many Dollar stores allready. These stores incourage for people to buy more stuff which has caused pollution and has been transported from far away which has caused more pollution . This pollution has not been payed for by the company who causedc it. \Actually we all pay for it in a way and we can not tolarate it any longer. We have to buy locally, locally produced products which are more expensive but save us in the long run. Less pollution more jobs and purpous for people. So NO DOLLAR STORE
Doug Carter
3:07 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
Do you people hear yourselves?
Amanda, How many jobs did the local business supplanted by Family Dollar provide? Do all locally-owned businesses provide fulltime positions with health insurance? Their prices are "that great" or they wouldn't have 3 stores in the neighborhood. How many local economically-depressed people have gotten their lives "back on track" because they were hired by a locally-owned business? Most of your points ring hollow. It will be years, if ever, before this neighborhood is Bayshore and Family Dollar businesses will avoid it. It is a neighborhood with pawnshops and discount stores for a reason. Rather than wasting energy trying to stop family Dollar, start a dialogue to encourage them to be better local citizens.
Elisabeth, pollution? Seriously? Everything locally-owned businesses sell hasn't caused pollution? "We have to buy locally, locally produced products which are more expensive but save us in the long run." Ha ha! You are so out of touch with the reality of many of our neighbors lives. Unbelieveable. Also, it's 'purpose'. Maybe you were thinking about 'pompous'. It would make sense.
Bob P
3:17 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
How odd for those to complain about a store that is an easy walk. No gas. No pollution of the air. Exercise. I have seen some Family Dollars that have a nice exteriors that go along with the neighborhood. Maybe we should communicate with the company what we would like. Yes, they do carry items from China, but many items are U.S. made like cleaning products, pet food and their general food items. Voice our opinions of what we would like.
Whine and Moan
7:39 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
senior citizens will remember the 5 and dime stores that existed all up and down the main highways here in florida. I think they were called Motts. A little general store, that had just about everything you needed in one place.
then the big stores came in and pushed them out.
I like ma and pa businesses, but they can't take every space. there are already many vacant old buildings on florida ave. most of all, I miss the post office.
Shawn Hicks
12:45 pm on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
Bob P -- This is very interesting to me. Could you identify which Family Dollar stores you have seen that would fit into an early through mid-1900's neighborhood aesthetic?
In my experience, they are either the cheap metal shed variety (Waters and Nebraska), fit into an existing strip mall (Emma & Nebraska, 2525 E Hillsborough), or have a stucco veneer over the cheap metal shed (Nebraska & Idlewild).
Of these, the Emma and Idlewild stores are within Seminole Heights boundaries. The Sligh and 22nd store is directly across the street from Seminole Heights. The 2525 Hillsborough is 3 blocks East of Seminole Heights. There's another on Rome and Hillsborough a couple blocks West over the river.
If you could point out a free-standing Family Dollar where care was taken to blend in to a neighborhood, that would be new information and very worth sharing.
Pat Alexander
6:48 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
I am opposed to a store like Family Dollar when they just put in another one over near Armenia Ave. This is a neighborhood that is in transition in a positive direction and we need to decide if we really want that kind of store here. My vote is NO!
Juana Herman
2:56 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012
I'm just curious how many people vehemently opposed to the family dollar for "local" reasons are also equally as opposed to having a Starbucks in the hood?
Shawn Hicks
9:19 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
Some are. Were you around when that fight went on? I was right in the middle of it trying to get Starbucks through the ARC process and City Council. There was vehement opposition to Starbucks.
Having said that, the larger issue for many of them is fair wages and working conditions. Starbucks, even for being a corporate chain, is one of the best in the country for paying good wages, giving insurance opportunities to-part time workers, and recognizing same-sex relationships. So on a scale of tolerable to terrible corporate stores, Starbucks is closer to "tolerable".
[disclaimer: that is my take on their position. I don't read minds. I like Starbucks and fought to get it here.]
Shawn Hicks
12:53 pm on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
I just remembered... opposition was so strong that the Starbucks sign was vandalized in once incident and one of the large plate glass windows was smashed in another. There was also some wheat paste graffiti applied around the store in protest. (Remnants of which are still visible on the light poles under the freeway if you know what you're looking for.)
So, to repeat, vehement and even somewhat violent in the case of the window. If you're looking for hypocrisy, you won't find it there. A large number of folks have been very consistent with their anti-corporate and anti-big-box views. So much so that the Refinery doesn't buy from those kinds of retailers; all their food is locally grown. Whether you agree with their ideology or not, they should be respected for their consistency and willingness to apply the same measures to themselves that they do others.
Juana Herman
3:13 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012
I mean listen I feel that ugh feeling every time I see a hideous dilapidated family dollar. Also just the logo makes me cringe. I agree with that guy who says this whole issue is a bit ridiculous considering the mixed economic situations of our neighborhood. Im sure there's a mom out there who won't have to walk as far in the blazing heat to get stuff but yeah it's not like a local market with good food and quality products. But if you just ran out of detergent and are walking to the laundromat it would be nice to pay a decent price for laundry soap. I think the best thing would be to approach the local guy like they said and see If they can just make their store less fugly or there will be a firestorm of complaints. Id love to see some awesome local business there and it is a bit out of character considering the hipness of the independent. There's part of me that's just glad to see any signs of life in the miles of boarded up storefronts on Florida and Nebraska avenues.
Dean Koutroumanis
2:03 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
Over 600 people are now in support of NO FAMILY DOLLAR on Facebook. Tens of thousands more have also fought against this corporation in their own communities nationwide. Join us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nofamilydollar
zac sperry
3:51 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
i own two buidldings in the area just up the street ....its better for property values to have on going businesses located in their neighborhoods then just sitting empty/idle or boarded up adding to the decay of the area....family dollar will attract other businesses to the area... business attracts business...it may not be exactly what u want but its a good step in the right direction ...good on you family dollar ...
TampaDink
9:03 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
I agree with your viewpoint that any viable business is preferable to boarded up buildings in varying states of decay. I love the great local businesses that are not affiliated with any huge corporation & they get my business. It seems somewhat elitist for folks to be enraged over a Family Dollar when we have Save A Lot & Circle K nearby, both part of large corporate chains and neither one of them would get any awards for keeping their property tidy & free of garbage. Maybe I'm being too tolerant and Family Dollar will be the final straw, causing all of the used car lots along FL Ave to go out of business.
Shawn Hicks
9:22 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
Zac -- the building wasn't vacant or boarded up. (though I agree that it looked vacant.) There were several businesses in there with more employees doing good, craft labor. The Family Dollar is going to replace those jobs with fewer and minimum-skill minimum-wage jobs. This change is going to be a net loss of jobs and wages at that location.
Doug Carter
5:04 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
Why would Dean Koutroumanis post the above? He works for Family Dollar. You do not aid your cause when you do assinine things like that. Use your own name. What a foolish endeavor. Idiots.
Chris Taylor
2:18 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Doug, I'm fairly certain that the person posting as Dean Koutroumanis is not the same person that represents Family Dollar in Tampa. I've sent this user an email to discuss this with them. I hope that this story, and future articles on this issue will be a good place for community dialogue on this issue.
nco
7:54 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
I'd rather have a Dollar Tree, they have relatively better merchandise and I'd shop there. dislike on FD.
Pat Alexander
9:17 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
Where exactly will people be parking in that location? Most of their stores look like dumps.
Mr. Bill
9:36 pm on Saturday, August 4, 2012
The truth is they are tired of getting ripped off by placing their stores so close to their target buyers. By placing their store in a better neighborhood, their taget buyers now have to drive to it and the walk-in shop lifters will be now have to take the bus.
The bottom line is, their stores don't reflect the needs of this neighborhood and have a bad effect on everything around them by the customer base they bring. Their customers are not going to walk out of FD and go shop at any of the local businesses ....cause they are too broke to buy quality goods or services!
Stores that target poverty demagraphices should fearlessly set up their store in those areas and live with the consequences of their marketing....Cause they certainly enjoy the profits of cheap off-shore goods sold to poor desperate people.
Let the hate begin!
Elizabeth Graham
9:29 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012
I am opposed to a store like Family Dollar. I’ve dedicated sometimes sacrificed 13 years of my life and my income to create a cool vibe with local independent business on Florida Avenue and now that it’s all finally coming together with Candy Co, Sherry’s Yesterdaze, The Refinery, Forever Beautiful Salon and Day Spa, Cleanse Apothecary, The Barber Shop, Independent Brewery, Cappy’s Pizza and Microgroove. I am devastated to think that a Family Dollar Store could KILL and DISTORY the culture we’re just now developing. It would do absolutely nothing to improve our neighborhood. My vote is NO! IT MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!
Shawn Hicks
9:10 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Elizabeth, If no one has said this to you recently, let me remind you that your efforts are appreciated. When I moved into Seminole Heights 12 years ago, there was almost nowhere to eat out or relax on a Saturday night. We spent much of our time driving to Ybor or South Tampa to spend our time.
Doug Carter
9:45 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012
"I am devastated to think that a Family Dollar Store could KILL and DISTORY the culture we’re just now developing. It would do absolutely nothing to improve our neighborhood. My vote is NO! IT MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!" Really? A Family Dollar could "KILL and DISTORY the culture"? I hadn't realized that. I don't know what distory means but it can't be good. Elizabeth, do you honestly become phsically ill if you think about a family Dollar between Cappy's and The Independent? You poor dear. In light of these revelations, I want a yard sign toot sweet! I wish that I had dedicated 13 years of my life to developing a cool vibe with local businesses. I'm worthless as a human being.
Scott
3:33 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Mr. Carter - I'm glad you've left the discussion because your sarcasm is not welcome. You probably don't know who Elizabeth Graham is, yet you mock her. Indeed, there are many people like her who have contributed a great deal to the renaissance in the neighborhood. She is certainly entitled to her thoughts.
Worldwalker
8:33 am on Monday, August 13, 2012
You mock someone for a typo in "destroy" yet you write "toot sweet" when you presumably mean "tout suite"?
Doug Carter
5:21 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Anonymous person with egg on your face,
Good thing you used an alias! I presume that you mean 'tout de suite' as there is no "toot suite". Toot sweet is an accepted Anglicization of tout de suite, unlike "distory" which isn't anything. Some friendly advice: if you aren't certain when you criticize, don't hit submit. (Unless, of course, you don't mind the proverbial egg on your face). I wait to hear how you respond
Autumn
10:02 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Doug, at the beginning of this you had some good points to make and I'm glad you did. At this point, you're just being a jerk to people that obviously feel strongly about something that you don't think should be getting this much attention. Agree to disagree. Lay off the sarcasm, please, and continue to contribute to the conversation with valid points.
Scott
3:30 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Amen
Doug Carter
11:09 am on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Autumn, I am making valid points. My sarcastic comments are clarifying how silly it all this. Do you honestly believe that ridiculous hyperbole aids your cause? People should debate intelligently or not at all.
Shawn Hicks
9:13 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Hyperbole is bad but ad hominem is not? I'm not reading you stuff as sarcasm but as ridicule. It's a shame, too, because you were making good points and adding to the conversation initially.
Worldwalker
8:37 am on Monday, August 13, 2012
No, your "sarcastic points" are not clarifying anything. They are simply nasty. They have convinced me, at least, that you do not have a defensible opinion, and instead you are using that nastiness to keep people who do not want to get into a mud-fight from disagreeing with you. That does not benefit this discussion.
Doug Carter
4:51 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Worldwalker, sarcasm is a time honored way to exemplify inanity and illogic. As for a defensible position, http://seminoleheights.patch.com/blog_posts/an-open-letter-to-no-family-dollar I await your response to the entire letter. But please comment there. Also, have the courage of your convictions and use your name. Thank you.
Autumn
12:26 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Making fun of sentiments (however poorly expressed) is not intelligent debate either though, is it? I'm just saying that the mocking tone isn't adding anything but negativity. Debate the points and facts, not the sentiments. I'm sure there are things you are passionate about that others would think are "silly."
Elizabeth Graham
12:27 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
I’m not a writer. I’m a dreamer and when I bought and developed my commercial property, moved and restored two historical buildings. I envisioned a charming, unique locally and ran owned business district. Cute little mom and pop stores where everyone knows your name. Not a corporate Family Dollar store. So I’m sad and dishearten to think that my dream is being destroyed. Especially since it’s so close to coming true.
Whine and Moan
7:43 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
not everybody is as rich as you, Elizabeth taylor.
Doug Carter
12:46 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
I was wrong and apologize for my insensitivity. Best of luck to all in your endeavor.
Louise C. Wilt
12:58 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
The Post Office is now commerical....Been in the "hood" forty-two years and I shudder at all the USED CAR businesses....would you prefer a car "Dump" or stacked tires??? Florida Ave is a main thoroughfare after all
Chris Taylor
2:04 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Thanks for all of the dialogue everyone. Anyone driving through Seminole Heights can see that this issue is on a lot of people's minds. We'll do our best to keep writing updates on this issue.
Is there a story idea or angle you would like us to pursue? Or, do you have a question around this issue that remains unanswered?
Chris Taylor
2:20 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
FYI - Back in June, Pinellas County Commissioners shot down a zoning request that would have allowed a Family Dollar Store to be built at the corner of Virginia Ave. and Alt. 19.
Here is a link to the story: http://palmharbor.patch.com/articles/family-dollar-store-zoning-denied#photo-10471091
We'll include this link in future stories, but I wanted to post it here in this discussion.
Tim
10:05 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Ironically, that is exactly by where the Developer of this site, Chris Salemi lives in Palm Harbor. Guess his community didn't want a Family Dollar there. I wonder why. I mean sure ... traffic was their excuse but ....
Sharon Short
12:41 pm on Friday, January 11, 2013
Chris...If you are with the Patch, will you please correct the description of the location of the new Family Dollar to the right location? It is NOT located between the Independant and Cappy's. It is actually just NORTH of the the Independant on the SW corner of Florida Ave and Wilder Ave. Thanks, Sharon
Scott
3:29 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
It's a bad idea. There are, as has been pointed out already, enough dollar stores in the neighborhood. They are not well-kept. They sell cheap crap. It is not the direction we want the area to go.
Michael Blackburn
4:37 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Family Dollar tried to justify the new store by making a comment that Starbucks has multiple stores within 5 miles of the Seminal Heights store. That may be true, but the closest one is just over 4 miles near downtown. Family Dollar has 2 on Nebraska within a mile. I can walk to either of them. I'm not interested in a third store that saves me just a few blocks.
Pat Alexander
5:47 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
It also took a long time, interaction with neighborhood representative, design and redesign of property to come into the neighborhood. I drove past two Dollar Stores (one across from our Publix) and what I saw was mess, dirt, and nothing like what has come into being on the corridor where Dollar wants to come in. NO to Dollar Store.
Shawn Hicks
9:20 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
@Pat, the building on 5100 Florida, when viewed through Google Street View, is not much better than what people are accusing Family Dollar of looking like. I'm not complaining about their appearance as much as I'm pointing out something that seems inconsistent to me. If the current businesses stay there, we have dead landscaping filling with un-mowed weeds, trash in the parking lot, and almost no plant buffer between the lot and the sidewalk. There's a chain link fence that is trapping trash and weeds with a bunch of random commercial "stuff" (junk?) within it. The building looks boarded up, and in fact in all the times I've been to the Independent, I thought it was abandoned. I was shocked to hear that it wasn't.
Again, I'm not complaining about the current appearance; I am pointing out that it is currently in worse shape than the Family Dollar on Nebraska that I see almost daily since my home is a block from it. Heck, I can see it from my front yard.
If we are going to give Family Dollar a hard time for not maintaining their appearance, why are we not doing the same with existing commercial buildings? What makes Family Dollar different?
Casual Observer
6:35 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Thank you, Shawn for stating my thoughts exactly. Recently, in light of all this controversy, I drove up Florida avenue, specifically by the property in question and its surrounding buildings and businesses. I was surprised to see the unkempt condition of this building. No one can deny that this property didn't get to looking that way overnight. And please don't anyone use the excuse that the businesses that are there are only tenants and that it falls on the landlord to maintain the building's exterior. For crying out loud, there is PLANT LIFE growing on the roof of the building and cascading down the wall. Those businesses that got run out of there, were they proud of the look of the property? Granted, FD stores for the most part are not kept up, but you folks are in a glass house and throwing stones! I applaud surrounding businesses like Forever Beautiful, Independent, Refinery, Yesterdaze for the attractive appearance of their businesses.
Casual Observer
6:46 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Casual Observer ... continued ...
But in my latest observations, the green building on the corner of Osborne and Florida, which houses Tampa Street Market, is seriously in need of some scraping and painting, unless all that chipping paint on the Florida facing exterior is considered part of their "character". Same goes for the building that Microgroove and that auto repair shop attached is in - can you tell me that it isn't also in need of some exterior attention? Even the No-Tell Motel on the west side of the street is better attended to than some of the other buildings it surrounds. After my tour up the street, I asked myself this question - "If I were to open a small business, would any of these buildings appeal to me?" My answer was "no". While I am not sold on another FD popping up, I can't help but play "devil's advocate" here and say, "shame on you who do not keep up with your commercial properties." How can you go and critique FD's when your own businesses do not have the appeal to attract customers. The businesses in the white building had plenty opportunity to spruce up the property, even if the landlord wasn't going to step up to do it. Like Shawn, I too thought it vacant. Look at Yesterdaze - Sherry leases that property. Her landlord did not paint the outside of her building, she did. She could have stuck to a monotone, milquetoast beige, but she took the initiative (and expense) to make her business stand out in a very funky, attractive way.
Steve Quillian
5:09 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
This sounds a lot like all the hype that tried to keep Starbucks out of the neighborhood a few years back. No one's complaining now. I think it's unfortunate that only a select few get to voice their opinion. I would be that for every person who has joined a page or made a comment opposing this store, there are five who don't even know the discussion is happening and would have an opinion if given a shot. I wouldn't take all the noisemakers to be the majority.
MDB
5:23 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012
Family Dollar screams "depressed neighborhood" Seminole Heights is an area where the majority fight, starting with their homes, to rise from that catagory.....this move will just serve as a kick in the teeth. "I won't shop there"
Lisa Cunningham
12:08 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Call us silly, or elitists (both seem like ridiculous labels for people who care enough to want to restore their historic community), but we're not alone. The negative impact these types of stores can have on communities is documented all over the country and all over the web. Before you make any assumptions about the motives of those who oppose the Family Dollar, it might be beneficial to do a little reading. Most of the "pro Family Dollar" comments I've seen (bringing jobs to the community, encouraging new business growth, improvement of the property, etc.) can quickly be refuted with a little research. I’ve found nothing that gives me even the slightest hope that Family Dollar has anything to offer Seminole Heights. Here is just one of many articles dedicated to this subject…
http://jtbarnstormer.com/2012/02/16/neighbors-say-stay-out-but-is-anyone-listening/
It sounds like some folks consider Seminole Heights a lost cause. That’s a shame. I’d hate to live in a community I felt that way about.
Cyndee Lentz
8:41 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
I live on branch just 2 blocks from where the family dollar will go. Wilder ave is already a cut through street for too many cars going to Hillsborough high school or just cutting through our neighborhood. Many drive too fast and don't care about our quaint little neighborhood and those of us walking our dogs or taking a run. In the past I have frequented the local family dollar and been harassed by people asking me for money for hotel rooms or food. Right!! So I don't go there any more. This family dollar will bring more traffic and more transients to our neighborhood. We don't need this here!! I vote NO!!!!
Chris Taylor
9:25 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
We're working on a lot of angles for you this week around this issue. We pulled together some links to help people get involved, if they want. Let us know if we missed anything. http://patch.com/A-wG2z
Doug Carter
9:56 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Oy vey... and I dive back in. I am not 'pro-Family Dollar'. I am pro-Seminole Heights. The Times article about the meeting was embarrassing to me, my wife and 25 year old daughter as residents of the community. "The group was young and old, but its one similarity became starker when Stephanie Roberts, the only African-American, walked in.
"Forgive my ignorance," she said. "But what's the real reason we don't want the Family Dollar? Is it aesthetics?"
"Yes," the crowd responded.
"Is it the people?" she asked.
"Yes," the crowd replied.
"What kind of people is that?" she asked.
Michelle Baker, an owner of the Refinery, headed off the conversation.
"I think everyone has their own reasons," she said.". Fortunately Michelle Baker isn't stupid and saw what was coming or it could have appeared even worse. Who organized that meeting? If you can't guarantee some non-white faces that fully support the cause, don't have the meeting. You might not like it, but perception is reality. Ferrel Alvarez said, "I actually wanted to pull her (Roberts) aside because she saw it as almost racial in tone," Ferrell said. "It's not racial in tone." Whether it is or isn't racial in tone is irrelevant. When you have a sea of white faces discussing an ethnically diverse neighborhood issue, the perception is racial. Of course she saw it as racial in tone. Who wouldn't?
SRoberts
12:25 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
***(clapping loudly in her SH living room.....) Bravo, my friend. Couldn't have said it better..........and glad you're back in...
Shawn Hicks
2:53 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
I appreciate the perspective, and I can see where Ms Roberts was coming from, but I don't think we as a neighborhood should cancel events if we cannot get the correct percentage of blacks, whites, latinos, heterosexuals, and homosexuals in the room together. If we did that, most of the organizations would cease to exist and there would be no events.
What is important is that we invite everyone, welcome everyone, and listen to everyone regardless of their demographic. Whether they choose to attend or not is up to them.
Accusing people of being racist is a great way to end a productive dialogue and derail a movement that may have nothing at all to do with race. As we are nearly evenly split amongst the three racial groups I mentioned above, no one group has the upper hand on number of voices.
Having said that, Ms Roberts' question regarding what, specifically, it is about Family Dollar that is undesirable compared to other retailers (and the existing retailer) is excellent. The answer to which would help inform the larger vision of what all of us in Seminole Heights see as a desirable future for our community. When discussing that, we should be sensitive to keywords that might be misunderstood to imply something we do not intend.
Doug Carter
4:00 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Mr. Hicks, of course you don't need to make sure that every event is diverse but it shouldn't have taken much thought to grasp what this particular meeting about this particular issue could look like if it were basically all white. Again, perception matters. You say that everyone was invited. Really? I would venture to say that most, if not all, of the inviting was via social media sites that many neighbors are not members of.
Shawn Hicks
4:48 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Mr Carter,
I made no such claim. I wasn't there and could not comment on their methods used. I merely said what should be done. I cannot speak for that particular event.
Perception is colored by everyone's unique set of baggage. I have no idea how other people might perceive the meetings and events I coordinate. No doubt the lack of racial diversity makes them look "racist" to people who are looking for that kind of thing. I would rather be as inclusive as possible and spend my energies working on the real issues than trying to force people to pay attention.
The event was announced on Facebook and the local Seminole Heights blog. Both of these resources are free and open to everyone with access to a connection. What level of effort would you consider the minimum for notifying the appropriate number of people? This has been a long-standing problem for all of the local community groups. Large numbers of neighbors pass over the websites, newsletters, and door-to-door flyers until something they care about happens; then they get upset because they weren't notified. If you have some specific thoughts on how organizations might get the word out on these things such that a larger number of our neighbors hear the message, I'm very willing to consider those ideas.
Tim
10:09 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
I was at the Meeting, Doug. Apparently you weren't. There were people of Hispanic and Asian heritage as well as caucasian present during the meeting. Apparently the writer was the one being racial, because last I checked people of Asian and Hispanic heritage deserve to be recognized. Perhaps you should write a letter to the editor about it instead of kicking your neighbors in the shins on a community page, Doug.
Doug Carter
9:59 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
"Veronica Vellines, owner of the Independent, said a Panera Bread was about the only chain she could stomach. She worried her property value would decrease.
"I serve some of the best beers in the world," she said, "and for people to get to my place, you have to go by? It's going to detract and discourage others from investing in the neighborhood." The horror! Someone will have to see a Family Dollar in order to drink some of the best beers in the world! Can you honestly saw that that statement didn't make you cringe? Again, whether meant as a classist statement or not, it certainly sounds classist in tone.
On her Facebook page Molly Miller posted, "Someone should post the google map and picture of this. It is on my walking route to the Independent, and Cappy's, and we would have to look at it from the deck of the Refinery.". No! You'll have to look at a Family Dollar from the deck of the Refinery? Again, these type of "arguments" don't help your cause and they certainly don't put Seminole Heights in a positive light.
Shawn Hicks
3:05 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
The "local" movement has a large number of adherents, many of whom are not wealthy... in fact, a good number of them probably fall into the Family Dollar demographic. These folks dislike Family Dollar because of the highly corporate, big-box business type it represents and not the sorts of customers that shop there. Note that Ms Vellines was saying that she pretty much hates all big-box stores, even the ones that cater to wealthier customers. This goes against your broad-brush statement that this is a classist response to a store that is known for opening up in depressed areas.
I respect their position on big-box stores, even though I do not personally share it entirely. I think it would be a benefit to the neighborhood to have a portion of our commercial district, say the one South of Hillsborough on Florida avenue, be primarily independent businesses that are socially conscious and provide above average benefits to their employees. That doesn't mean there isn't room for other options or that their vision of their perfect shopping experience is inherently racist or classist.
There is no need to polarize this discussion with broad brush accusations.
Doug Carter
3:56 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Ms. Vellines words speak volumes. Being upset that people will have to walk by Family Dollar to drink her good beer sounds completely benign to you? Why does she accept Panera Bread? Is that the only chain she shops at?
PLEASE, comprehend before commenting. I never said it was inherently racist or classist. I said that manycomments sound that way and perception is reality.
Again, please read. I am not making broad brush accusations. I am providing specific examples that are detrimental and make the "movement", specifically, and Seminole Heights in general, look bad. I am perplexed that this doesn't concern you.
Cara Greenblatt Davis
4:19 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Is it wrong that many, if not the majority of us prefer to spend our dollars at local businesses? Is it wrong to prefer a certain type of aesthetic? This is our neighborhood, and we all have opinions on how we would like it to look, how it feel as we walk the streets or drive to and from work. This is neither classist or elitist. Seminole Heights was a depressed neighborhood. It's not now. the low-to-middle class target demographic Family Dollar shoots for is not neccesarily descriptive of SH now. The new developments along both Florida and Nebraska Avenues are what many of us were hoping for when we bought into the neighborhood. This is why we don't live in the suburbs. This is why we chose this area. It held much promise.
Again, we are all entitled to our own opinions; what we are not entitled to is behaving as you have here and on the neighborhood blog. You discredit yourself a great deal by hurling taunts and insults at your own neighbors. You seem to take great pleasure in trying to degrade people, teasing them as if you were a shool child. It makes your opinions a lot less important to me, and probably many of those reading your childish, chest-beating tirades.
Shawn Hicks
4:57 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Mr Carter,
She said she could stomach Panera--not a ringing endorsement by any measure.
If perception is reality, and I perceive your approach as a broad-brush indictment for racism, does that make it true? :-) Please excuse my snark here.
I am very concerned about a number of things realting to Family Dollar. If you've been tracking my comments on the Facebook page or on their website, you'll see that I question some of their own statements. This is not a simple issue; there are a number of complexities that are driving a diverse group of neighbors to have a variety of reactions. The solution to this is going to depend on how civil we can be in our disagreement and how understanding of differences we are. The folks who might like to shop at Family Dollar, the folks who dislike big-box stores, and the folks alarmed at how this commercial development clashes with their personal view of Seminole Heights can all come out of this with a stronger sense of community if we avoid unkind accusations and try to really listen to each other.
Tim
10:10 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Again, I was at this meeting. That story is full of incorrect facts. The closest Starbucks is on the other side of downtown, and there are 5 Family Dollar stores within a couple miles, not two. Get over it Doug.
Doug Carter
10:10 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
Several people have said that the Family Dollar will destroy our community. Destroy? Hyperbolic comments make us look like out of touch fools. Speaking of appearing out of touch with the reality of many of our neighbors' lives, I offer this gem from above, Elisabeth Bezemer, "We have to buy locally, locally produced products which are more expensive but save us in the long run.". Seriously?
Am I being sarcastic and mocking? Yes. But that is my point. The neighborhood risks looking bad just attempting to stop Family Dollar. Public comments like those cited guarantee it. I am angry at being humiliated by my neighbors poorly conceived comments.Why not work with Dean Koutroumanis and Family Dollar to make them better citizens? That's a damned sight better than some moron posting here as Dean Koutroumanis speaking in favor of No Family Dollar.
The supposedly reasoned arguments ring hollow.1) Low wage, part time, no health plan jobs is what Family Dollar will bring. No offense but that also describes most locally-owned businesses. 2) It is a chain. The neighboorhood is full of them. Do you shop at Publix? 3) It's dirty and the architecture doesn't fit. So the abandoned buildings and car lots are clean and historic?
You are good people but you need to realize how this appears. Again, why not start a dialogue with Mr. Koutroumanis and encourage you friends to lay of the embarrassing public comments? What binds us all together is our pride in our neighborhood.
Shawn Hicks
3:29 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Mr Carter,
The Publix architecture most certainly does fit. While this incarnation is relatively new (1995), it is based on the original store built on that location in 1954 in the "Streamline" style. Before that, it was an orange orchard.
As I live very close to that store and also the Family Dollar across the street from it, I am more aware of the ups and downs of both those businesses. I was involved in the discussions with Family Dollar when that one went in, trying to get the best possible building there rather than their intended metal shed like the one at Nebraska and Waters. We still got the metal shed building but they did stucco over it and move the front door to the sidewalk as requested.
A question: If the neighborhood is full of used car, appliance, and tire stores, does that mean residents shouldn't try to improve the quality of shopping in the area and clean the neighborhood up? Are we expected to accept the lowest-common denominator? Just as the low wage issue seems hollow to you, so does the notion that we already live in a junky commercial area so why not one more of them ring hollow for others. Remember that many of the folks upset about this bought old homes in poor condition because they saw the potential in them. They worked very hard and spent much more money than they ought to have to fix them up. It's a passion. I would expect them to carry that passion to the community at large too, wouldn't you?
Doug Carter
3:46 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Mr. Hicks, I never said that the Publix architecture didn't fit. I asked if people that are anti-chain shop at Publix. Please comprehend before commenting.
Cara Greenblatt Davis
3:55 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Really? You never said the Publix architecture did not fit?
""Do you shop at Publix? 3) It's dirty and the architecture doesn't fit. So the abandoned buildings and car lots are clean and historic?""
You are full of yourself, Mr. Carter.
Doug Carter
4:06 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Ms. Davis, do you understand a numbering system? Reread please.
2) It is a chain. The neighboorhood is full of them. Do you shop at Publix?
Tim
10:12 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Doug, if you think that people standing up for what they believe in via press and the internet makes people look bad, just wait till we all start going Door to Door, Picketing and attracting more media attention. I can't wait.
Worldwalker
8:46 am on Monday, August 13, 2012
"Why not work with Dean Koutroumanis and Family Dollar to make them better citizens?"
Because people in the neighborhood have no influence over Family Dollar's hiring and compensation policies. The store might be persuaded to change its facade, but it won't hire people full-time. It won't pay more than minimum wage. It won't provide insurance. And all the "working with" in the world won't change that.
Doug Carter
4:55 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Anonymouswalker,
You expect the NFD brigade to stop the sale, I'd think that it would be easier to persuade them to work with such a large group of consumers.
I wasn't aware that the local businesses were providing lots of high wage, fulltime positions with health insurance. I regret my error. (That's sarcasm. I used it to point out your poor logic.).
Doug Carter
10:32 am on Monday, August 6, 2012
A correction. I meant to say Molly Miller's comment is on the No Family Dollar facebook page. I regret the error but am unable to edit.
Cara Greenblatt Davis
12:46 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Thanks Mr. Carter - we all just needed to be "taught" by you, since we are all ignorant, mispelling fools. I think you have changed *scores* of minds on this topic with your pompous (but highly educated) scoldings. I'm so sorry for whatever shortcoming you are insecure enough over to cause you to delight in belittling and insulting your neighbors (even calling them "idiots). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion here - and they do NOT have to all be yours. I respect the opinions of those not opposing the store - I do NOT respect your disregard for other residents of SH. (must be a HUGE shortcoming)
jaime
1:03 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
no more family dollars I don't even like to go in the 4 around me and its not because its a chain. its because they have bad service and old or damaged products and nothings a dollar.
Doug Carter
1:22 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
SRoberts, thank you.
Doug Carter
1:22 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Ms. Davis, my pleasure! I am a teacher, after all. I'll begin my 27th year soon.
I respect your opinion regarding my sarcasm but how about my main points? Again, I am involved because I care about Seminole Height's reputation.
I also appreciate your keyboard psychology. Now that I am aware of my HUGE shortcoming (the caps were subtle - not!), I finally understand why my wife has affairs. All this time I assumed that it was my arrogant pomposity.
Worldwalker
8:48 am on Monday, August 13, 2012
If you are a teacher, I pity your students. Sarcasm, insults, and put-downs may silence disagreement with you in the short term, but they are not a productive approach in the long term.
Doug Carter
4:58 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Why do you pity my students? Is it because I do my best to teach them the importance of analysis in order to make better decisions and understand their world? (Again, sarcasm).
Amanda
1:31 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Mr. Carter: Why do you WANT Family Dollar? Specifically you, and specifically that store, and specifically that location. You may have felt that my views were hollow, but after reading these posts, I still have no idea what it is specifically about Family Dollar that you like, and or want. Originally you had claimed inexpensive prices, but what else? If their prices are so fantastic, the location on Nebraska next to the Mega Mart should be packed- and it's not...
Doug Carter
1:42 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Amanda, please read all posts before commenting. I have never said that I want Family Dollar. I never said that store and location or that I want their prices. I am not going to repeat all of my posts. Please reread them carefully. I am pro-Seminole Heights and feel this No Family Dollar nonsense reflects negatively on our neighboorhood.
Chris Taylor
4:01 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Hi everyone,
Can I jump in real quick? I'm curious to know, do you feel there is anything in particular that Family Dollar could do to make coming into the area more acceptable?
Doug Carter
4:08 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Chris, it seems that folks have a problem with the alledgedly unkempt parking areas, the loitering clentele and the architecture. As I have stated, a dialogue with Family Dollar regarding these areas could prove successful.
Shawn Hicks
5:10 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Chris, that would depend, I think, on each person's basis for objecting. If you're in favor of small, independent retailers in a crunchy-kinda-artsy way, then you might be okay if Family Dollar were to provide benefits similar to the way Starbucks does (health insurance for part-time employees, etc) and were to provide some solid assurances that they'd try to fit the store into the local aesthetic. This probably wouldn't fit their "discount retailer" business model, but it would certainly be a major departure from their image.
Maybe if they agreed to paint and maintain the store in the appearance of an early/mid-century five-and-dime or hardware store, that might reduce some of the of fear over what this store might do to reduce appeal for other mom-and-pop retailers to move in next door. Well, that and a solid commitment to install some greenery in the sea of pavement and maintaining the property. People who earn less or are very frugal enjoy pleasing architecture and clean stores too.
Whine and Moan
7:54 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
I want to point out something. I went to the no family dollar website, and they had picture of a "already falling apart" store on Nebraska, across from Publix.
FYI PEEPLE. That damage on the side of the building was caused by a Seminole Hts. teenager who ran off the road and hit the bldg. this happened about 6 weeks ago. i guess they are still waiting for an insurance payment to fix the damage.
just seems unfair to say the bldg is falling apart. thats not true.
Tim
10:19 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Yes. They could carry locally based products, fresh locally grown produce, pay a real living wage to the employees, make the architecture significant in the craftsman style adhere to sign and building regulations that other historic neighborhoods have, actually maintain their property (although it's been proven that with any other property they have the promise to and never do) and most importantly of all keep the net profits in the local economy, by moving their corporate operations to downtown Tampa. That would be a positive effect. Otherwise, we're all getting screwed, having a net loss of jobs to the block and there is no way that the facts can be added up otherwise.
Chuck Stephens
6:55 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
I think expanding their inventory to include more historically apropriate items. I know a few of the NFD crowd would love to see FD's customers wear more rags and chains like the old days.
Relax- that's called sarcasm.
Doug Carter
4:10 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
2) It is a chain. The neighboorhood is full of them. Do you shop at Publix?
Just in case you missed the above reply, Ms. Davis. Where do I say anything about the architecture of Publix on Nebraska?
Cara Greenblatt Davis
4:28 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
that's my mistake; and I am mature enough to own up to it. It doesn't make you any more of a respectful neighbor. This is supposed to be for discussion - not for one-upping anyone who opposes your view.
Chris Taylor
5:14 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Hi, it's Chris again. I wanted to let you know that we reached out to Chris Salemi and Dean Koutroumanis for a follow up story. We have also been talking to the City of Tampa today about some other details. I'll be sure and post links to the new article(s) when they post. Thanks for being on Seminole Heights Patch. If you have any ideas for story ideas or anything else for the site, you can email me, Chris.Taylor@patch.com.
Pat Alexander
5:17 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
I have a simple question: why has this discussion turned into a "Doug Carter column?" This is a waste of energy. Let's refocus to the issue.
Doug Carter
9:25 pm on Monday, August 6, 2012
Simple answer? Because Doug Carter makes logical points.
I just read a comment on the Facebook page from a Michael Bailey. He tells a tale of a "getto (sic) rat" he saw at Family Dollar. I tried to thank him for making my neighborhood look intelligent but I couldn't comment. I guess those types of comments are acceptable but admonishing people for it isn't. This will likely get ugly, folks.
Worldwalker
8:55 am on Monday, August 13, 2012
"Because Doug Carter makes logical points."
Well ... no.
I've been a member of boards far more contentious than this one for a very long time (all the way back to Usenet before the Great Renaming) and one thing has always proven true: It's not the people who make logical points who get all the replies; it's the trolls. It's the people who are rude and disagreeable, often deliberately trying to anger other people for attention, who, indeed, get that attention. It's true on every board I've ever been on, and will no doubt remain true as long as human nature remains human nature.
So don't flatter yourself by thinking people are reacting to you because you are right, or even logical. They're reacting as they are because you're rude.
Pat Alexander
4:28 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Worldwalker there is a simple solution to trolls etc. Once identified, don't bother to read or respond. Their audience dries up.
Doug Carter
5:00 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Ms. Alexander and Ms. World, I find it interesting that you have not given a response to http://seminoleheights.patch.com/blog_posts/an-open-letter-to-no-family-dollar Please comment there to the entire letter.
Mr. Bill
9:41 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
The only points you have made are of resignation to the FD opening and how bad we all lok to have pride in our neighborhood .
To start a protest againest a business that we don't feel is appropriate in "our neighborhood" is our right and our duty. We have a vested interest in what happens here in Seminole Heights.
If we had bought behind University Square Mall, then I could see where we would have no say in what comes into our neighborhood. But we all live in an area that is in transition and unless we chose to get involved in the development of our area, it will not change for the better.
Mr. Bill
9:46 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
To wellcome with open arms those businesses that prey on the lower income people will just encourage more absentee landlords to invest in the area,as the goods and services (payday loans,pawn shops,cheap goods stores,etc) will be in close proximity to them to fill their needs. It is a downward spiral that anyone who has invested here, doesn't want to see!
I have been here 23 years and love the choice I made to invest here. I also try to support as many local businesses as possible. I look forward to more local stores opening to add to "our neighborhood".
there are plenty of areas available for "box stores" to locate at. Straight up at Waters & Florida there are plenty of empty store spaces available. Family Dollar's targeted demagraphics do not, a far as I have seen, include the majority of residents of Seminole Heights.
And Mr Carter....It appears you have been suffering withdrawals from not being able to grade some papers ....so I deliberitly missspelled some words so you can admonish me for my grievious misspellings and dismiss the legitimacy of my points.
Whine and Moan
7:57 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
mr. bill, i am half a block from wilder and fla - on the east. we need a family dollar. many of us are old, and we don't have reliable transportation. meals on wheels is nice, but i like to walk and buy some provisions. I am surprised Gita's isn't complaining. they will lose business, my guess. 7-11 too at hills corner
Doug Carter
10:47 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Hey Mr. Bill, are you actually the stop motion character from vintage SNL or do you have a name? So you are okay with your neighbors characterizing Family Dollar's clientele with terms such as 'getto (sic) rat', 'transients', 'dirty', grungy', 'trash', etc. on this and other public forums, such as the unofficial official Seminole Heights blog, the No Family Dollar facebook page and the Times article comment section.? You, Mr. Bill, said this: "The bottom line is, their stores don't reflect the needs of this neighborhood and have a bad effect on everything around them by the customer base they bring. Their customers are not going to walk out of FD and go shop at any of the local businesses ....cause they are too broke to buy quality goods or services!". Are you proud of that statement, Mr. Bill? Then attach your name to it.
People have characterized the employees of Family Dollar, many of them our neighbors, as 'lazy', 'uncaring', 'trashy', etc. on public forums. But I am the bad guy? Where are the Seminole Heights activists condemnations of these disgusting comments? You folks are unbelievable.
Doug Carter
10:32 pm on Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Tim, if you were at the meeting and the Times article is as inaccurate as you say, then I am certain that you have contacted Justin George's superior, complained and presented compelling evidence which will result in a retraction. If unethical journalism presented the meeting so badly, then the attendees wouldn't rest until they had satisfaction. I await reading the correction and apology in the Tampa Bay Times.
SRoberts
1:14 pm on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
I was at that meeting too, Tim.
I guess there were people of Asian & Hispanic descent present, but let’s be clear, those didn’t/don’t seem to be the group(s) most assumed to be the clientele that frequent Family Dollar. C’mon, you know that, right? Ok--maybe you don’t, and that’s fair, but I think I do.
Justin George isn’t the one who set the ‘racial tone’. He was making an observation, asked me about mine, and I told him. In fact, there was much more that I said to him that DIDN’T make the page. However, such a tone was there, alright, just cloaked under a thick and heavy layer of adjectives like ‘dirty’, ‘trashy’, ‘cheap’, ‘lower-income’, ‘-hood’, and blanketed phrases such as ‘they’ this and ‘they’ that. I was so glad that those weren’t the only sentiments of NO FAMILY DOLLAR shared.
SRoberts
1:16 pm on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
And just to be clear, I am not pro-Family Dollar-- I just hadn’t flushed out exactly why at that point, that’s why I went to that meeting, hoping to hear other opinions that might cover things like parking inconveniences/would neighbors demand FD maintain architectural aesthetics?, and God-knows what other logical reasons not to like the idea of them moving in that I hadn’t thought of. I now suspect that at THAT moment in time of the whole issue, most there were not yet as unified and focused in their points as at THIS point in time.
What I heard was more than half of the voices that spoke seemed to have focused their reasons of disapproval based on sweeping prejudices & distastes for the things inside those stores and for the people that work there, and I guess the people that they feel those stores attract. Is the store on Nebraska the cleanest in Tampa? Not by a long shot. Are the insides of many of these types of stores as shopper-friendly as, say, a Whole Foods? Hardly. Are all FD employees models in outstanding customer service like, say, ANYTHING Disney-related? Honestly, I’m chuckling to myself at the extreme differences. But the stores are not exactly the scum of the earth, as many (MANY, as in SOME, NOT ALL) at the Refinery meeting and on these discussion boards make them out to be. And, I’m guessing many establishments have, out of their ENTIRE customer base, a percentage of littering, loitering, ...
SRoberts
1:16 pm on Wednesday, August 8, 2012
loitering, inconsiderate folks who don’t respect our environment/other people’s property.
While listening, I heard what sounded like exaggeration for the sake of bold point-making, which I realize could be based on people’s personal experiences. I respect the fact that everyone has the right to express their opinions. At the time I left, it was hard to separate the ‘box-store’ haters from the ‘people-who-shop-at-a-box-store’ haters, from the ‘David vs. Goliath/corporate chain-vs.-small local independents who more directly give back to the community’ movers & shakers.
So, to me, sure that meeting at that time had both classist than racial undertones, but I now know they weren’t the majority, just the loudest voices there, because also at that meeting were some voices that called for the need to hone the battle points into a more plausible strategy. Thank goodness it seems those are the voices now steering this cause.
Look, I’m not looking for a side-fight on this issue, I just want to clarify, maybe even curtail any misled negativity towards the reporter for what he wrote.
Shawn Hicks
9:41 am on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Ms Roberts -- your opinions are welcome and appreciated. I enjoyed meeting you Monday night and hope you continue to be involved in our community regardless of the outcome at 5100 Florida ave.
anon
6:13 pm on Thursday, August 9, 2012
DC,
Publix may be a chain but they are regionally based and donate to many, many community events - I've yet to run in a FD 5K sponsored race or take my kids to a park that FD employees helped rejuvenate . Publix also provides the option for benefits, stock and the ability to rise through the company for a career - haven't seen that opportunity discussed in many, many article written on the web regarding FD.
Doug Carter
9:11 pm on Thursday, August 9, 2012
Thank you for bringing up Publix, anon. How about using your actual name? If you can't own your words, then refrain from expressing them. So you say that some chains are acceptable for the location, eh? If that is true then it is both hypocritical and classist. Hypocritical because if the No Family Dollar focus is on protecting the local independent businesses being evicted and the jobs they provide then no chain would be acceptable. If the only difference in this situation were Trader Joe's instead of Family Dollar, there would be no resulting No Trader Joe's campaign. You think Trader Joe's is a poor analogy? I don't, it's right up NFD folks alley. But okay, fine. Replace TJ with an acceptable chain. Starbucks got in, so there would be one. If you accept Trader Joe's (or whatever) but not Family Dollar, then you are a hypocrite because both would be evicting local independent businesses, taking existing jobs, are out of state corporate chains with low wage part time jobs, increased traffic and parking. You are a classist because TJ (or whatever) is your type of business with the right kind of prices, products, employees and customers but FD is not. Nothing wrong with that, just admit it. It is a requirement of logic to be consistent.
And again, anonymous posters have no credibility. Have the courage to express your convictions or keep them to yourself.
Pat Alexander
12:04 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Do you know there is this facebook page as well that is not specifically related to Seminole Heights:
https://www.facebook.com/BoycottFamilyDollar
Whine and Moan
9:57 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Here are some more Facebook boycott pages - fyi
boycott fox news
boycott walmart
boycott apple
boycott starbucks forever
boycott mcdonalds
boycott chic-fil-a
boycott home depot
boycott disney
would you like some more?
Doug Carter
3:43 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Pat, do you know that there are Facebook pages and websites calling for action against many businesses? You post might be relevant if, when word got out about the proposed Family Dollar, some people said, "Hey! They have employee safety problems. Let's get a meeting organized!", instead of "Hey! I'll have to look at it and it's cleintele! Let's get a meeting organized!".
The other issues were added later. Remember the meeting? "Is it the aesthetics? Yes! Is It the people? Yes!"
By the by, my wife is painting our bedroom and sent me out for 2 venetian blinds. I went to Family Dollar as that is where we buy them. Upon checkout, the clerk abruptly looked at the screen and said, "Wait a minute" and called the manager to come up. It seems that the register charged $8.50 each and the clerk thought that they were $5.50, which they are. The manager, who arrived quickly, agreed. Wow1 What excellent customer service. I didn't have a chance to point ti out, the employee, probably a neighbor, was right on it. We laughed about it and funnily enough, I left my reading glasses on my forehead, misread the screen, and accidently canceled the transaction! I made a joke about how i should wear my glasses right or don't wear them. The neighbor behind me in line, gave me a look, pointed at her glasses and said, "We're all getting old". Me, the clerk, the manager and the other 2 customers all laughed. What a nice experience in our neighborhood.
Doug Carter
3:51 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
This was at the Neb. Ave. store by Publix. It was clean and friendly. I noticed the plywood many have complained about. Big deal. A couple sheets of plywood. I went to the FD by Mega Supermarket first, our usual, but they didn't have the right size. It was clean and friendly as always. We don't go often but would go more if it was in walking distance. Easy to pick up things you need. Our 25 y/o daughter shops there often due to her financial necessity. Before I left for FD, we discussed the NFD movement. She said shopping at Family dollar is how most of her old gang (pre-rehab/NA) managed to afford the Independent. I laughed my arse.
Whine and Moan
11:22 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
the plywood is a patch due to a car crashed into the building about 2 mnths ago. They are probably waiting for an insurance settlement. I shop at that store when I can get a ride over there. Its a nice place and very friendly, clean and well stocked too.
Chuck Stephens
2:51 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
This issue has forced me to do something I swore I'd never do- start a Facebook page. Seminole Heights Residents for Equality and Discourse (www.facebook.com/shredseminoleheights) is there to offer a balanced reply to the No Family Dollar movement and to resist any initiative that puts the interests of business and profit above the interests of the residents of our neighborhood. The page is sparse right now but it will be full of info soon. Go there and download our flyer and let them know how you feel. Our neighborhood is awesome- let's keep it that way!
Chris Taylor
3:18 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
I just wanted to point out some new coverage of the issue.
Frequent commenter Doug Carter penned an open letter to the 'No Family Dollar' movement in a blog post: http://patch.com/B-ckS2
Also, I added some new links from Patch and other local media to our "Family Dollar Issue: Complete Coverage" page: http://patch.com/A-wG3H
Lastly, We welcome all types of local voices to use our blogging platform as a way contribute to the conversation in Seminole Heights (not just about Family Dollar). If you would like to have your own blog on Patch, you can get started here: http://seminoleheights.patch.com/blog/apply
Pat Alexander
9:34 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
Chris is there any way you can reverse the posting of comments so that the most current ones are at the beginning and the older ones at the end. I think that would better catch people's attention. Maybe I'm lazy but I don't like having to guess if there is something new. Thanks for your consideration.
joe julius
8:46 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012
everyone screaming about family dollar not being local and taking money away from the community (don't get me wrong, i strongly oppose another family dollar anywhere in seminole heights) but how many of the new 'local' mom and pops are residents of seminole heights or even tampa? it's my understanding that the owner of the independent lives in st pete and the owner of the 'coming soon' red rock star does not live in tampa either, someone told me he lives in plant city.... not sure about domani, but i think south tampa.... so there seems to be quite a few of 'carpetbaggers' moving into seminole heights motivated by the possible profits from our community only to take this money outside of the community.... i know sherry at yesterdaze is a seminole heights resident, but what about the others that are coming into the area? no seems to mind their money leaving the area with these folks and i do admit they do bring an improvement to the neighborhood...
Carolyn Simpson
5:46 pm on Thursday, October 4, 2012
When was the property sold to Family Dollar?
Chris Taylor
8:58 am on Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Thanks, Sharon Short, for pointing out that we placed the location a bit too far south in this early article on the topic. I made a correction and added a note. Thanks again!